Playing Time
Image by Glover Bryant Communications via Flickr
Inclusive
Little League is inclusive. You don’t have to try out to get into the league , only to balance the talent among the teams. Anyone that signs up gets to play! That said, back in the olden days when I was playing, there were no minimum play rules. In fact, there were no reentry rules! Once you were out, you were out.
I also started playing as a 9 Year Old. There was no minors program, there were no developmental or t-ball programs either. The fact is that playing time in Little League has increased astronomically.
Earn Your Position
That said, this isn’t "feel good league", it is Little League. You have to earn your position on your team in the Major ‘s. This is NOT a bad thing! This is a great life lesson . How many times have you thought Jimmy was going to be the shortstop but Johnny beat him out. Then Johnny worked real hard and won the spot back. What was the result? Two great shortstops!
Regulation IV (i) in the Little League rulebook requires that "every player on a team roster will participate in each game for a minimum of six (6) defensive outs and bat at least one (1) time."
In minors this year for the first time consecutive batting orders are mandatory. Many leagues already did this, but now it is the rule. The minimum play times in regulation IV still apply, but free substitution is now permitted on defense. Our league made a local rule that no player in minors may sit for more than three consecutive outs thereby guaranteeing that a kid in minors will play every other inning at a minimum.
What if Your Kid Isn’t Playing Enough?
What if you think your kid is not playing enough but is playing the league minimums? The board of directors has no choice but to hear your concerns, graciously console you, and then inform you that the manager is within their rights to manage the team as they see fit. As long as Jimmy is playing the minimum, there is nothing the board can or will do.
Now what to do? Some would be tempted to "take their ball and go home" and this reaction is understandable. But what are we teaching our kids if we allow them or even encourage them to do that? Wouldn’t it be better to take Jimmy to the field and work him out? Make it impossible for the coach to keep him out of the game? How about encouraging him to support his teammates? Stepping up as a moral leader?
There are so many valuable lessons to be learned in Little League. One of the most valuable is that you don’t always get your way, or what you want. You do what is best for the team and respect your manager’s decisions. Likely you are young or inexperienced if you are playing league minimums. Your time will come. Look up to the others, try to emulate them, try to make yourself better, and do everything in your power to improve.
Or you can take your ball and go home, another life lesson?
There is a kid waiting in minors that would consider it an honor to play 6 outs and bat once in the Majors.
How do you keep kids motivated that only play minimums?
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I think the minimum playing time is a total joke and if you are honest with yourself you would admit it. It’s not “feel bad” league either! How does a kid earn his position when he is prohibited from doing it? Why doesn’t the coaches kids have to earn their positions?
It doesn’t take a lot of common sense to know that this rule allows managers to play favorites- and they do! It also is no mystery that the kid who only gets one at-bat will never learn to bat. He will never gain any confidence. He will never develop his skills or his self esteem. For one thing, it takes at least one at-bat to feel the pitcher! Six defensive outs is also a joke. When you’re outfield, which is all your gonna get, you’re lucky to get any action at all in 6 defensive outs. Who do you think you are fooling?
You have managers who have kids sitting on the bench because they don’t know how to coach. This unfair behavior is unacceptable by the manager and should not be condoned. There is no excuse and you can’t rationalize it, justify it, or double talk it into anything more than a poor joke played on innocent kids who deserve and expect more. There should definitely be some accountability on the part of the managers and coaches. Why even have a board of directors at all if it is how you describe? And you really sound like a jerk when you talk about sending the parents on a wild goose chase only to waste their time and smirk about it. “There’s nothing you can do- Ha ha ha” The manager is the king of the world and he is now your god. Welcome to hell.” If that is a reflection of our values of society then no wonder we have problems.
If you lose a game, so what? Why do managers whine so much when they lose a game and punish certain players? They blame the parents or the kid. That should be a great opportunity for the manager to show what a good sport he is and to know he needs to step up to the plate and teach the kids better skills. If some kids aren’t playing well, it’s mostly because the manager or coach isn’t teaching them anything. Not because the kids have no potential. It’s easier for a manager to put their kid in the field with a bunch of above average players to win games and give their kid the credit than to really teach the kids how to play and make it a team that plays as a team. I see it all the time. Little league is not “sink or swim” time. The kids are supposed to be getting taught to play baseball. Not show how well a “stay at home” dad can teach their kid during off season. After all, what if a kid gets injured or can’t make it to a game or moves away? You can’t play a season with only nine players. You need at least 12, right? Well, don’t waste people’s time!
It is a proven fact that managers can’t be trusted to be fair.
And don’t preach about life lessons. It doesn’t sound like you have learned enough yourself. Kids this age will have plenty of time to learn life lessons- you are supposed to let them play ball and have fun. There are a lot more talented kids who were discouraged to play by corrupt managers than your short stop BS. Maybe that’s why we have so many foreign ball players in the big leagues now. You can’t tell me that there are so few good players in the States that they have to go to third world countries to get players. American boys just don’t know they can play because they never got the chance because the little league coaches didn’t do their job. So now we have to recruit them from all over the world. I think it’s great that they get such wonderful opportunities to come here and be pro ball players and make more money than they ever dreamed. But you can’t tell me that the American dream is only for foreigners now. No, that alone should be a sure sign that there is something wrong with our program and it has been going on for a long time and it’s getting worse because of your type of insane mentality.
The truth is that other countries don’t exclude children and discourage them from playing during these impressionable years. They let them play ball! They build them up, not chop them down. We don’t- we think it’s ok to make them sit on the bench, piss on their leg and tell them it’s raining! The values of American people, mostly fathers who only coach to promote their own kids, and these overly competitive parents who pump their kids up on grow hormones, punish their kids for striking out, and basically robbing their own kids of their childhood, are rotten to the core.
So now we have a youth program, that preaches “for the kids” and “positive experience” blah blah blah is about as corrupt as you can get with no checks and balances at all to protect the kids from stupid coaches. That’s why soccer is becoming more popular every year and little league is a farce.
I coached for years and I would never play a kid the minimum.
NEVER! I play all the kids, I play them fair, I move them around, give them equal time, I teach the kids how to play ball and to be a good sport. I make the kids feel like they are a team, give them confidence, they play well together and we win games that way and they are eager to play next year because they love the game. As a coach, I have a job to do. But I soon realized to my dismay that I was the exception, not the rule.
It isn’t my job as a coach to discourage kids, play favorites, oppress them, stifle them, frustrate them, make them feel inadequate, send them to the school of hard knocks to learn lessons that don’t have anything to do with the game of baseball and screw them up for life. Is is as crazy as it sounds. Everyone learns good lessons from going through hard times, but that is no excuse for little league baseball coaches who are downright unfair. And if that’s such a great philosophy, then why don’t you see more coaches using it on their own kids? NO WAY! You can bet their kids are playing first, pitching, second, short stop, and all six or seven innings! I don’t see coaches kids playing the minimum in the out-field! And it’s not because they are all such great players!
That “earn your way” lesson is a cop out that can only be spoken by a manager who plays favorites. In reality, the kid will never be able to “earn their way” because the goal of magically turning into your son is unattainable. If Johnny plays better than your son, he will be resented and held back even more.
No, little league is going to have to adopt more rules to make sure kids get a fair chance, learn the game, get some playing time, and managers and coaches do their job right or step aside. Kids don’t learn anything from sitting on the bench. Managers need to teach and lead by example. Don’t tell a kid to be a good sport when a manager is the one being a total jerk. The manager should be a good sport and let the kids play ball! All the kids!
I am saying all this because my son and I have been through the ringer with little league and we are fed up!
Jerry,
Thank you for the best comment I have ever had! You are obviously passionate about your position and I appreciate that. When I played Little League there were no minimum play rules and I often sat the bench the whole game as a 9 year old. Likewise, until recently, there were no minimum play rules for all-stars and the top 9 pretty much played the entire game.
This often meant that my son sat the bench. My daughters did not start any games this year because they chose to spend their time on the computer rather than practicing. Therefore, their hitting suffered.
There is always a problem w/ coaches and kids on the team. Unfortunately, when the league is run entirely by volunteers this is unavoidable. I have seen it both ways though, sometimes coach’s kids are better than coaches think and they don’t play them.
A coach once told me, “you are right I play my kid the whole game, that’s why I coach, I put so much time into it to assure that he plays, if they want their kids to play more, they can volunteer”. This is obviously a very bad position to take.
Minor programs exist where kids get more playing time. The majors are not designed that way. You learn more on the bench in majors than you do playing every day in minors.
There are only 18 outs in a little league game. If you have a legitimate major’s game w/ decent pitcher the score will be in the single digits. If we assume a score of 6-3 then that means only 24 batters came up for the winning team. Add a few left on bases and you have 30 at bats in a game.
If you have a team of 12 and you had a perfect world of free substitution, then 6 of the kids would get 3 at bats and 6 would get 2.
A coach in my league this year stated that you don’t learn baseball on the field, you learn it in practice. In practice you get 100+ swings if the coach knows what he is doing. In a game, you are lucky to get 5.
In minors we usually only get 4 innings in. That means that often a player only gets one at-bat anyway with consecutive batting orders. The fact is, there aren’t enough outs to accommodate the number of at-bats we would all love to see.
That said, I personally do my substitutions differently. If I have 12 players then I sub after the 2nd inning in the bottom 3 slots, then bring those guys back in the next 3 slots. Everyone plays 4 innings. My theory on this is I am not coaching to win today, I am coaching to prepare for the tournaments at the end of the year.
If someone is sick, or at a school function, I want EVERY kid on my team prepared for a pressure situation. The baseball Gods have a way of finding your weaknesses, so limiting them is the key to success in my mind.
The issue you are addressing here has nothing to do w/ the minimum play rules. It has to do w/ coaches that play favorites. This is an entirely different issue.
The rules of Little League Baseball are international rules. They are followed by every league in the world. All those chartered by little league must follow the same rules. So your statement about other countries rings a little hollow.
In fact, other organizations have less stringent rules than Little League. Little League’s are the most stringent. AAU and other travel programs have no minimum play rules and when I umpire those games kids sit out for entire games at a time.
I am sorry that you had a bad experience. I cannot speak to your specific experience because I was not there obviously. I would recommend that you manage your son’s team next year or join the board of directors and create change. Another great lesson little league teaches is that you can actually affect change by getting involved.
Hi. My 12 year old son is going through the same problems with Little League B-ball. He plays for a 12 year old team. Currently, he is on an All Star team. Today, he got one “at bat” and played in the outfield for 2 innings. I was shocked. Coaches kids get to play, except for the one who is in a cast. God forbid. The child that was playing my childs position, one of the coaches kids, made 3 errors and didnt get taken out, just moved to another position as my child still sat on the bench. I have no problem with my child sitting out, just let him know why, which we wont believe anyways, because he didn’t take out hardly anyone else, or the “clique favorites.” I believe, if you make an error, you get substituted until that child messes up, and if he doesn’t, at least rotate the kids every other inning. There shouldn’t be kids that always stay in, while a few select unlucky ones do. Especially in an ALL STAR Game. Any advice? Fed UP
Michelle,
Without hearing the coach’s side of this it is very difficult for me to comment. I will say that the minimum play rule in all-stars is one at bat and three outs in the field, so technically the coach played your son more than the minimum.
This is ALWAYS an issue in all-stars, on just about every team. For the sake of this reply, I want to play devil’s advocate for a moment.
Assuming your son did not sub for the coach’s son, there was probably no way to take his son out. Once all your subs are in and have met their minimum playing time, they can only reenter in the slot in the line up in which they started or entered in.
From what you describe above, it sounds like the coach may have been frustrated w/ his son and probably would have taken him out but he had no option to do this. It is not difficult to back yourself into a corner like this as an all-star manager.
I do have to disagree w/ you also about rotating players in all-stars. I am assuming you mean the little league tournament all-stars here. Little league has 3 distinct programs. Fall, where it is all instructional and players move around at will w/o regard to winning or losing, spring where the leagues are competitive, and all-stars where the best of the best compete in a highly competitive environment.
This is the best of all worlds. In all-stars, the ones the manager feels are the best play, the others do not. Hopefully the manager picks the best, and when the team is winning, this is usually how the parents feel. When they start losing though, suddenly the coach can’t do anything right. Rotatating players around in a all-stars should not be happening, that should be reserved for fall ball and spring ball during blowouts or games that don’t count in the standings.
That said, what is the best way to assure that the team is being run the way you think it should be run? Volunteer and coach the team. You may be selected as the all-star manager if you are good. Otherwise, the lesson here is, maybe the manager is right, maybe you are right, but either way, everything is legal.
Jerry and Michelle,
How cathartic to read your comments.
I got my first taste of All-Star baseball Saturday, when my 10-year-old son was allowed to play only three defense outs and a single at-bat. (He got hit by the first pitch, so never even swung the bat once.)
Who played? The coaches’ kids (6 in all) and three boys who played for the coaches during the regular season. They made repeated errors and stuck out repeatedly, but were never taken out. My son was among five boys who warmed the bench.
“Tommy” was a first-round draft pick during the regular season, a star pitcher, shortstop and catcher . . . However, he was never considered for a starting position by the coach, who has essentially ignored him and his considerable talent, even in practice.
When Tommy was upset at not playing during the game, the coaches told him to suck it up, because “baseball is a team sport.” It occurs to me that the 14-boy roster is primarily so my son and the other boys who didn’t play can share in the costs of the all-star tournament. (We have paid more than $300 so far).
My son can outplay any of the “starters” and regularly did so during the regular season. My solution is to let him play travel ball . . . so he can experience non-parent coaches for the first time.
Beth,
Thanks for getting involved! From the sounds of your reply, the game did not go well. I am sorry about that. Obviously I can’t really comment on your specific circumstance but I am intrigued by the fact that you have paid $300 for all-stars?
Why the additional fees? My prior league charged nothing and my current league charges a $35 uniform fee. Also, the draft selection process is strictly confidential, how do you know “Tommy” was taken in the first round? This information should never leave the room.
Little League had attempted to try to find ways to make leagues put more kids on the roster to get the experience, this is the downside. If you have 14 players, the maximum you can take, then 5 have to sub in for 5 others. That means only 4 play the whole game. This is a very difficult task for any coach to accomplish.
Travel ball is good for developing advanced skills but it lacks the sense of community that Little League has. Playing with your friends is always more fun. Likewise, I don’t know of many travel teams that have coaches that aren’t parents either. I know they exist, but not many.
Again, why not volunteer yourself? League will always take volunteers.
I am not defending your coaches, if they did not play the best players at the best positions in all-stars shame on them. Unfortunately, we often disagree on what is best, but we should always respect the manager. They are after all, the authority figure and teaching our children respect is much more important than winning one all-star game.
Thanks for participating!
Coach, thanks for your reply.
I am not sure why $300 in fees. For that, the boys received fancy uniforms, an all star jacket, and a batting helmet. I assumed the remainder was to fund the District tournament, but did not think to question it.
Tommy’s coaches told me at the first meeting of parents that he was the first round pick for the team. I didn’t know that information should have been confidential, though I didn’t relay the message further.
I would not take Tommy out of little league, but supplement it with a travel ball program that runs from the end of all stars through November. We are lucky enough to have a team run by ex-MLB players in our area. These gentlemen also give pitching and hitting lessons to area kids, including my son.
I am confident none of the boys lacks respect for the coaches. What concerns me is that the coaches are displaying a lack of respect to some of the boys which, during these formative years, threatens to negatively impact their self-esteem on a long-term basis. My son, who is incredibly “nice” and full of confidence, believed he would be lead off batter and starting shortstop. I spent two weeks before the tournament began trying to figure out how to lower his expectations, but in the end, there was no way to do that. (I concede I am ultra-concerned about my son’s emotional well-being as his father was a casualty of the Iraq war seven months ago; knowing what I do now, I would not put him in all stars.)
Thanks again for your counsel.
First, thank you for the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. I know I speak for everyone reading this that we sympathize with you and we are sorry for your loss.
We don’t get jackets and helmets, that is a huge expense and you probably have fancier uniforms than we have. Each district charges differently, but we pay $75/team to play in the tournament. That covers the cost of the flags, pins, etc.
Travel ball is a great experience. My son plays also, I wouldn’t push him into it, but he was asked and wanted to do it, so we let him. He definitely had fun, but he gets much more out of Little League. Of course that’s because he has such a great coach!!!..lol.
It has been my experience that kids are super smart, very intuitive, and able to understand situations much better than we give them credit for. How they respond is what they must learn because they do not always do the right thing.
We often don’t give them full credit for being able to handle things, but they are very resilient. Short term setbacks often lead to much higher self-esteem and a better understanding for the future. We cannot learn what right is, if we never experience wrong.
I agree 100% earning your spot is a good thing but what do you do when the player works hard and is obviously a better player but still doesn’t get more than the minimum playing time? According to the rules complaining to the board will make no difference. Plus it may just make you look like a whiner parent. Where will that leave you or your young player next season? In my case I let the boy use it to teach me a lesson. Here is the story. My son was chosen to play on the all-star team and out performed all others at his desired position, catcher. The manager, coaches, other teammates and other parents made this known to him at the beginning of the season. However, the catcher who played for the manager during the regular season who also made the team got the call. My son realizing the situation even worked on other positions before and after practice in order to show that he is more versatile and not just a one position player and still he sat. After the second game he asked me why. I could have only speculated at the reason and I did not have an answer so I told him to ask the manager. To his credit he did and the answer was “you have a great glove and a great bat but as the relief catcher I don’t want you to get tired out”. To my sons credit he accepted the answer, he continued to work hard played his two innings, one or two at bats and had a great time, on the way to a second place in state. He had the second best average at 571, was second in RBI with 12, and had the most assists and second most unassisted outs. Obviously better than a two inning player. I was the official team score keeper and statistician so I made sure the manager and coached were aware of the situation. I mentioned to the manager after the season I wonder what the possibilities would have been if one of the best players on your team would not have been riding the pine all but two innings a game. He just looked at me and smiled, he didn’t get it. He looked at the stats after every game and during practice and just didn’t want to see it. I shouldn’t have to tell you it was a hard season for us, his fans, seeing him not only work hard during practice but go early and stay late taking extra infield or fly balls and not getting recognized for it. He was having the time of his life so we kept our comments in check. To his credit as long as he did well achieved his goals, in practice and in the games, that’s all that mattered to him. Despite how difficult it was for us to watch I think he learned an important lesson. Sometimes when you work hard, and do exceptional things, its ok if no one seems to notice as long as you can be proud of what you have accomplished.
This was our third All-Star season and this was by far the worst case of favoritism I have witnessed. The worst part, of the all-star system little league its self for that mater, is the politics. So far every year there were two or three kids that didn’t belong on the team. They were there because they are the son of a board member or the son of a well liked coach. This is the worst because there is a player or two out there who deserves to be on the team but isn’t. I have an answer to this though. In stead of having the managers vote the nominees onto the team, by secret ballot in the dark of night, have a one day tryout. Durring the try out have all the managers score the players and pick the top 12 or 14 or what ever. This will increase the possibility to weed out the politic players that should not be there. From what I have witnessed if you could get a team of the truly best players based on objective analysis and managed the team in the same fashion it would truly be quite a formidable team. This cuts against the grain of basic human nature so it will never happen. It’s quite sad really.
First, congratulations on finishing 2nd in the state! Fantastic effort! Obviously you are very proud of your boy and his team as you all should be. Reaching that level alone is a great accomplishment.
Wow! This topic has defiantly struck a chord. LLDad I find it hard to disagree w/ anything you say here. Nobody is really wrong here in my mind, everyone played by the rules. Obviously, I cannot address your specific situation w/o hearing the other side. I know personally, I want the best bats on the field in the beginning of the game and I will make defensive substitutions in the end to strengthen the field if the situation arises.
Every league determines their all-stars based on their own rules decided by their board of directors. In our league we let the kids vote the top 8 and the manager is permitted to pick the remaining 4-6 players. In my prior league every coach voted the kids and the vote had to be unanimous, no matter how many rounds of voting it took.
Little League baseball suggests in its rulebook that the vote occur in 5 groups.
Group 1 – Players
Group 2 – League Officers
Group 3 – Team Managers
Group 4 – Team Coaches
Group 5 – Volunteer Umpires
Then all votes are to be tabulated and that makes the team. I have never seen it done like this and think it might be a logistical nightmare.
This is simply a “recommended method”, nothing is mandatory here. This plan is also from 1965! I prefer the method our league uses because it allows the players to pick the team, but the manager to make sure the unpopular kid who is a great player is not left off the team.
There is no perfect solution, we all know that. But for the most part, everyone is trying to do the right thing in their mind. Unfortunately, it does not always work that way. I truly believe 99% of the volunteers in Little League want what is best for the better of the league though.
I realize this is old, and I may not get any replies, but I’m frustrated and upset, so I’ll give it a go anyway. What if you have a coach who is playing your child the absolute minimum every game? It’s hard as a parent to see the other boys batting 2 or 3 times when your child is lucky to bat once. The last game they had, when my son was up to bat for the second time, they actually took the bat from him and put someone else in. My son is 10 years old and playing for little league. They hold tryouts for little league and he was thrilled to have made it. Not so thrilled now though, and coming home after every game frustrated and in tears, feeling like a very unimportant part of his team. What really bothers me is the coach’s son is not one of the best players either, but he rarely sits out. This is his first year on little league as well. The coach told the boys all rookies have to pay their dues, but it seems to me my son is the only rookie paying his dues. It breaks my heart to see him in the dugout by himself game after game. I’m extremely disheartened at the fact that my son will be on this team with this coach for the next 3 years. Any suggestions?
Kimberly,
I understand your frustration and have been on both ends of this issue. First, I feel that kids learn more sitting on the bench in majors than playing full time in minors. The environment is much more conducive for learning and the kids they are surrounded with are better, therefore, they elevate their game. Little League International sent us word that their evidence shows that moving kids up usually results in better players as well when we had an issue with it earlier this year.
The coach is doing nothing wrong, though I would think he could find a few innings for your son if the game is a blowout or something. Also, aren’t there any games with only 9 players present? Over the course of a season kids generally get a fair amount of playing time even when they only play minimums in some games.
It is hard to watch, I agree. But the way you deal with this will be imitated by your son. For instance, if you complain about him not playing, and openly, (even in the car on the way home) speak of the playing time in the negative, that is how your son will feel about it as well.
But, if you immediately deflect any negativity and encourage him to work harder, then the rewards will be 10-fold. If a kid is performing, a coach will put him in. Likewise, all the 12 year olds on the team will move up next year, so he will be 11 and likely a starter. Plus, he will have all that great experience of playing a year in the majors.
Turn frustration and tears, into desire, ambition, drive, and motivation. Offer to practice with him, take him to the cages, take lessons from a coach in the league you admire, the possibilities are endless. But dwelling on the negative will never do any good at all.
One other thing, while it always seems that you know what the league will look like next year, it never happens. Your team could get disbanded, an expansion team could come up and you could ask that your son be placed in the expansion draft. You can ask your coach to trade or release your son as well. But those are extreme options.
The bottom line is, 10 years old is a tough age for Little League. But the experience gained will be well worth the frustration of today. And next year, when your son is a starter and one of those kids getting the additional playing time, you will look back and understand this. Meanwhile, you will hear someone next to you complaining about their kid only getting minimum playing time.
It is one of the great cycles of Little League and one of the best life lessons the sport teaches.
Thank you for the reply. I have to admit it has been hard to hide my frustration when my son is upset after a game. I keep telling him that his time will come and that he needs to be supportive of his team even from the dugout. What’s been especially difficult for me are his questions about why the other 10-year-old boys are sitting out very little. I can’t very well say “well, they must be better players than you or they are the assistant coach’s boys.” It’s also been a tough year for us because his father is overseas. I’m dealing with this on my own and going into it without a lot of knowledge as to the whole little league experience. I wouldn’t consider asking for him to be placed on a different team unless I were to see that nothing had changed next season. I was, however, thinking about sitting in on a few practices just to see how he is doing. I truly have no idea what is going on with him, since I’m not seeing him play all that much. Sadly, at this point, I’m just hoping that the season will go quickly. Even just thinking about tomorrow’s game is turning my stomach into knots.
Thanks again for your help! Hopefully we will get through this and things will be much better next season!
Forgot to add…unfortunately, we have had one player out sick for a couple weeks and another 2 players that have been missing quite a few games lately, not sure why. As a result, my son spends a lot of time alone in the dugout, which makes it even harder for him. It wouldn’t be so bad if he had someone to share that bench with! Also wanted to add, I do have a lot of respect for my son’s coach and think he is a good guy. I’m just a little puzzled as to the rhyme and reasoning here. You had a lot of good points and basically have repeated what my husband is telling me from Iraq right now. He says I’m just being a mom!
I meant one sick and one missing quite a few games, and mine on the bench more often than not!
Kimberly,
I must disagree a little with you here. When he asks why the other 10 year olds are playing more, the answer should be “because the coach feels that is what is best for the team right now”. Then you should encourage him to figure out how he could help the team more. Maybe learn to bunt great? Play right field w/ a smile on his face aggressively backing up 1st base and nailing runners trying to advance to 2nd on overthrows. Whatever it appears the team needs.
Have him flat out ask the coach what he needs to improve to play more. Coaches respect this coming from a player. I always preface my answer w/ “you asked the question, I am going to give you an answer, do you really want the answer because it might hurt?” Almost always, the kids that ask focus on what it is I said they needed to do better and improve their game.
Do you support the other players on the team? He will act as you do. On our older softball team we have parents show up even when their kids aren’t playing to support the team.
One more thing, are his outs any less important than another players? If he bats once and makes an out, he is individually responsible for more than 5% of the team’s total outs for the game! How can his at bat not be important? Do his runs count any less? See what I am going after here?
BTW. Thank you for your service to our country and for sharing your husband so that we have the freedom to have discussions like this!
I hope you didn’t misunderstand me. I’m not telling my son the reason the other 10 year olds are playing more is because they are better players. I would never do that! But, I can’t help but wonder what is going on, especially in the one instance where I mentioned my son was up to bat and they put the assistant coach’s son in for him, who is not an especially good hitter, so not sure why they chose to do this. In a perfect world you won’t have coach’s who will play their sons more just because they are their sons and not because of skill or experience. Unfortunately, it does happen.
I actually did tell my son he should ask the coach what he can do himself to improve his skills. I will encourage him to do so again!
I’ve been involved in Little League for a long time both as a parent and a coach and I have come to the conclusion that coaches who make their less talented players sit out as many or more innings than they play are either incompetent or way too competitive for little league. The best coaches I’ve seen let all players get playing time in the infield and the outfield and it’s amazing to watch those kids improve during the season.
Don’t give me that crap that kids are learning more sitting on the bench. They excel when they have a coach who believes in them enough to let them play even if it might cost them a victory. I had a coach who believed in me very early on in my little league career when I couldn’t even catch a fly ball and I went on to be a great player in high school. Little league coaches who make players sit excessively do that because they don’t have what it takes to help them to improve.
John,
We ran an experiment in our fall instructional program a couple of years ago where we mixed all the kids from majors and minors onto one team. Remember, this was AFTER the spring season, so this group included all the kids that would be moving up in the spring, playing with all the kids who were the young players in the majors during the spring. Basically, the kids sitting the bench in majors mixed with the kids that played every inning in minors.
Hands down, without fail, the kids that spent time on the bench’s skills were far beyond those who had played every inning in the minors program.
It is great that you had a good coach at a young age and it sounds like you had a coach that understood you should definitely play that way in the minor’s divisions. I tend to believe that you probably would have been successful regardless of your coach, because true success requires individual drive and willpower, but again, your were lucky.
This article is in reference to the Major leagues up of Little League that are, by design, competitive and consist of only those kids with skills that are developed enough to compete at that level. You will not find a kid that cannot catch a fly ball in that division. In the minor divisions, absolutely, everyone gets a chance to play and at all levels, positive reinforcement is required.
Hi – great blog. I served for 4 years on my towns LL board in a small position – just to get my kid noticed. He still got crappy coaches and benched 3 innings out of every game he ever played. Private lessons and camps have made him an incredible pitcher and the few times that he has actually been used to pitch he has pulled more than one team’s fat out of the fire. Now my hubby is also on the board but he’s not an alpha male, so although he has a much more important position than I held, no one is afraid of him so our son still sits out most of EVERY game – and he’s in Juniors – ages 14/15. He’s played since he was 6. The coach uses his buddies’ kids and his own kids for every key position for every game, every inning. It stinks. My son goes home in tears game after game. How can I call this “coach” on his unfairness?
Thanks for listening.
Kate from CT
That’s a great question. I prefer the direct method. Ask the coach what your son needs to do to improve his game and work his way into the starting line up. Then, focus on improving whatever it is the coach feels he is lacking. Of course, there are some bad apples out there, but it is my experience that every coach is doing what they think is right, they have the best of intentions. Open lines of communications are often always best.
Sometimes coaches don’t notice improvement until it is pointed out to them, they go about things the same old way and resist change. In the future, you might want to volunteer to be the scorekeeper and team statistician. Then you can provide the coach each week stats that show how the team and individuals on the team are doing. They are often enlightening for both parties.
The way to make sure your kid starts in a little league game is to be the coach or volunteer for the league. Often, talent has absolutely nothing to do with who actually gets to play. I’ve seen very average players get brought along to become slightly above average players while natural athletes sit on the bench and scratch their heads wondering why . . . The life lesson learned in little league is that favoritism exists and the old boy network is alive and well in little league, pee-wee football, and even grass fairy soccer.
Scotty, I am sorry about your experience, but my experience of 20 years is much different. I have rarely seen a coach not play who they thought were the best players for that situation at that given time. I know people disagree w/ their decisions very often, but I have rarely seen them make decisions based on favoritism. Most coaches make decisions on their perception of talent.
Read Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers. Those who have know this site is a bunch malarky encased in crap then glazed in more malarky. The kids who play more get better and the ones who spend the majority of time sitting out 90% of the time drop out. Because they look up to their coach they take it on their opinion that the playing time they receive equals their worth as a player. But it’s not just playing time. It’s body language, it’s how the kids are talked to etc. We had a parent of a boy on my son’s team basically muscle his way on to the team as a “coach” (he’s a school superintendent) and his son now plays second base. He committed multiple errors last night and was simply moved into the outfield. There are 3 other kids that the coach rotates at the minimum playing time in one outfield position. My son is a third year player in minors and he’s getting the minimum time. I’ve tried everything this site recommends but to put it simply I’m not adept at politics and my son suffers for it. The kids who play more have parents who are also closer to the coach personally. That’s how the world works. That’s how it’s always worked.
Hi Shawn,
Thank you for commenting! I am sorry about the situation with your coach. I do know that for the most part coaches are doing what they feel is best for the team and while you may not agree w/ their decisions, they usually make them in good faith. I am positive that every kid on my bench in majors is learning more than they would playing every inning in the minors. I think the proof positive is our senior division this year, the players and parents chose to have more players on a team and sit more innings than have more playing time on different teams.
We must accept responsibility for our own circumstances and not blame others and politics. If that is truly the case, then fix it by volunteering yourself. Please see my article addressing personal responsibility at http://thelittleleaguecoach.com/self-confidence-vs-ego/. I hope your situation improves and that you can work through this.
I have a unique perspective being a 1st year assistant coach on my nephews LL team (majors).
We had our first game yesterday and i am actually having more issues with the kids themselves. Now i volunteered my time to help these kids when NOBODY else would step up (Parents, Where are you at?). That being said, after the 2nd inning when we began to substitue…..thats when the cry-baby attitudes started to come out in full force…..This didnt stop for the ENTIRE game. Now if you are a coach, are going to put these whiny spoiled kids back in the game?? Some of them are actually decent players, but their behavior is like that of an infant. I am more proned to keep the others in the game, because when they sat the bench for 3 innings prior, they didnt complain and actually cheered on their teammates. To me that earns some playing time.
Of course the whiners were the exact same during practices before the season started…..2 examples – 1) 1st practice, one of the kids complained his leg hurt (it was cold and dreary outside), so thats fine, go sit on the bench and give yourself a rest…No problem right? haha Well not 10 minutes later we notice that he is running around and climbing on the jungle gym….hmmmmmmm
2) During batting practice everyone gets bored and doesnt pay attention at times….Another kid just decides to plop down in center field and plays in the grass. Telling him several times to get up and pay attention….ughhhhh!! Then a line smash is hit right at him, and yep there he is just hanging out in center on his can AGAIN! This ball missed his head by inches. For his safety and his ignoring of our authority, we sent him to the bench.
In both of these cases they didnt seem to understand why they were on the bench the rest of the 2 hour practice.
Anyway, these were 2 of the kids that were 1st substituted….Of course there were 3 others that we had to replace as well. They cheered the rest of the team on.
I love baseball and kids….Actually really enjoy teaching the kids that want to listen….Its the ones with the smart mouths that love talking back that really makes me wanna just move on and make this someone elses problem.
BTW, you also find out really quickly who the parents are of those little whiners!!
I guess i just needed to vent a little bit.
Game #2 tonite! Wish me luck!
Hi 1st,
Thank you for replying! Your situation is one we hear over and over again. It sounds like you are handling the situation well, just remember to stay true to your rules and then nobody can complain right? I understand your venting here, but please remember not to ever call a kid a name in public or even to your close friends. You are their to mold character, not demonstrate negative behavior. Sounds like you are doing a great job and good luck with your game!
The Little League Coach
I just had to post that what you say about coaches just doing what’s best for the team is pure malarkey, in many cases.
I’m a woman and have been everything from an Assistant Little League coach to just a mother of a player. The year I was an assistant was truly a wonderful experience. Every kid got to play. Of course, some got to play more than others but it was more about safety than anything else. We didn’t feel it was safe to put a kid on the infield against a power hitter, if the infielder couldn’t safely field the ball. We had a boy that couldn’t get close to hitting the ball actually get a double during the last game and the excitement from he and his teammates was a sight to behold! To me, that’s what coaching is all about.
That said, last year was a nightmare of favoritism that I have never witnessed before. My husband and I both volunteered but there were no manager slots available. The manager of my sons team basically said he didn’t need either of us to help, even at practices. From then on, we knew we were in trouble since I would never have dreamed of turning down freely offered help. In fact, in our team the previous year, almost ALL parents helped and the kids loved it.
But this year, practices consisted of just scrimmages where the coach would always pitch and the favorites were always placed in the infield. To add insult, the coach and the assistant coaches’ younger sons would always be there as well, playing the infield while other real team members were always in the outfield. Then there was the batting “coach”. My son is a switch hitter. He worked for months over the winter to get to that point and could hit most balls that came across the plate. At try outs, he hit every single ball on both the right and left side. Another boy, while not a great runner or fielder, was a huge power hitter. By the second practice, they were “taught” that both of their batting styles was all wrong and were shown how to do it “right”. Well, you guessed it. Suddenly, neither one of those boys could hit the broad side of barn. We had to rework on his hitting during the days when there was no practice and were treated ignorantly by the manager and the asst. coach for “going against” their batting coach’s directions.
So we spent an entire season with my son riding the bench while other kids made error after error and struck out. And our team lost every game but 2, so this couldn’t have been done to win games. I distinctly remember the day that what was happening really dawned on me. My son got to play an entire game and it was only because 2 of the “favorites” didn’t show up. That day, my son was the only player on the team to actually get the bat on the ball and he got 3 singles in his 3 at bats. Also, he started in right field and dove to catch a run saving fly ball. He was moved to 3rd and was able to field a ball that had dropped into the slot between 3rd and left field and throw it to the catcher to get an out.
But guess what? My son sat on the bench the next game and the next and the next. He continued to only get his 1 at bat and 2 innings while the “team” went on to lose every other game. But the Manager and the Assistant Coach got their sons and their favorites on the All Star Teams who went on to lose after only playing 3 games.
So please don’t tell me that kids just need to earn their position on a team or that coaches only do what’s best for the team and all the kids.
Great comment! Of course, there are situations where coaches play favorites, but this is the exception, not the rule. I am sorry for your experience and wish you luck in the future. Remember, Tom Brady was one a backup to Drew Brees!
Hi, I am having a hard time finding the minimums for the farm teams. I believe that each child is only allowed to sit out two of the six innings. Please help me with this because his coach is saying that he can sit him out the whole game if he wants and there are no minimums. This cant be true can it???
Hi Desiree,
I’m sorry. Not sure what you are referring to as “Farm Teams”. In Little League, there is majors and minors. In the minors every kid bats in the line up and must play a minimum of 6 outs in the field. Hope that helps.
The Little League Coach
Our area has what’s known as the farm teams. They are too young to try out for minors. Tryouts for minors starts at age 8. It is a coach pitch and the game only runs 6 innings. Lol, I guess its not common. That explains why I am having such a hard time finding the rules
. Thank you for your help, I do appreciate you taking the time to reply.
I am in a situation where I was coaching under a manager who undervalues my son as a player. He’s the best hitter on his team and one of the better fielders. Because he failed to discuss the lineup with me at all before opening game, I found out that my kid was hitting 7th and playing RF opening day. He’s a returning 12YO who was an 11YO all star and we play BB year around. My son was the lead-off hitter last season and hits for average and power! (two home runs in a 14 game fall-ball season). After I argued with the manager before the first game, my son played the minimum 6-outs and one AB the second game! Team lost 15-4 and the kid who replaced my son made 4-fielding errors in 1/2 inning! Even my sons schoolmates are asking if his coach is crazy! But as a LL manager he is within his authority to play my son at the minimum…..I have quit coaching the team and requested a trade to another team, (denied) now looking for a waiver to play in another league, (likely to be denied). Since the Managers wife is on board and is former president, there will be no fairness. This is a problem with LL, a clique can take control of the board and behave in a dictatorial unfair manner with impudence!
Hi Daniel,
Thank you for your comments! I am sorry that you are unhappy with your situation, however, I must support the manager in this situation. You probably won’t agree, but I have to believe that managers are playing who they believe to be the best players to give them the opportunity to win the game. I am sure you won’t agree, and that’s kinda the cool thing about baseball, we can always agree to disagree. I am sorry that you quit coaching the team because I believe quitting is NEVER an option, no matter what the situation. The manager appears to have followed all the rules and he is the sole determinant of whether to trade your son or not. However, trades rarely work out because there is rarely anyone willing wanting to come off of another team. So while it seems like a viable option and request, it is likely not possible. The only situation trades really work is when there are 2 unhappy players of equal skill level that can be traded for one another. The trade deadline is 2 weeks after the the first regularly scheduled game, so that may be a problem as well. Waivers to play in other leagues are rarely approved, so that is probably not an option.
BTW, we played a game yesterday that we won by 1 run. Our right fielder made 2 amazing catches and without his mad skills we would not have won! I would NEVER degrade ANY position on the field. In fact, because the pitching distance is only 46′ I would argue the right fielder is often one of the most valuable players on the field.
I suggest you accept your situation, teach your child to accept the hand that has been dealt to him, and make the best of it. Over the course of the entire season he will get plenty of playing time as often you only have 9 or 10 kids at a game anyway. If he shines, his coach will see it and will put him in when push comes to shove. If he doesn’t, then take a team yourself in the fall and run it however you feel it should be run. But whatever you do, don’t allow him to quit. Quitting is NEVER an option!
Interesting discussion. I have a question. I coach a 12 player major softball team. I have 6 very good players, some who use their spare time to improve their game above and beyond practice, in addition to school work and other obligations. The other six are not very good; only two of them are capable of any production, offense or defense, during practice, let alone a game. Why should I sit a player who perfoms at a high level and makes personal sacrifice to improve their skills, and play one who does not? What does that say to the child who has the desire to improve? I appreciate the perspective of the parents of the children who lack skills, but I don’t believe I should sit the kids who play well at the expense of others. I’m not trying to punish the less skilled by playing them the minimum, but I won’t punish the skilled by sitting them to allow the less skilled playing time above the minimum. Am I off-base here? Any thoughts? Thanks for letting me vent.
Ballcoach,
Thank you for your input! I agree with you in principal, however, (and I admit this may simply be semantics), I would argue that you play the best players because they are the ones performing at that time giving you the best chance to win the game, not because they work hard outside of the parameters of practice and games. If one of the six “not very good” players were to work twice as hard as the six “very good” players would that entitle them to play in your scenario? One of life’s great lessons is that sometimes we can work as hard as we want and still not succeed. I can practice 24/7 but I will never make the major leagues at my age and wouldn’t have at a younger age because I was not born with the skills. I would argue that what would be best for your team would be to get the “not very good” players as good as they can possibly be because even if they only play minimum play that is at least 6 outs in your batting order which is 33% of your total outs! Think if you converted their outs into sacrifices, walks, hits, and productive outs. At a minimum, get them confident and talented enough to put the ball in play because “good things happen when you put the ball in play.” Also, if they can catch fly balls, ground balls, and throw average to above average, with your training of course, they will be eliminating scoring options for your opponent.
In our league, we play intraleague games against our own league and interleague games against other leagues. The only games that count towards our championship and entry into the district tournament of champions are the games against our own league. In those games, we play 9 and we play some players minimum play. However, in interleague games that don’t really mean much, we bat everyone and nobody sits more than 3 consecutive outs in a game. This allows them all to see as much pitching as possible so when we play in the tournament of champions, and their out really matters, they are confident and often positive contributors during their minimum play.
Like I said, I know you didn’t mean it this way, I just found this the opportune time to expound on it a bit. Of course, those that work harder perform better. Like my friend Ted says, “I always found that the team that practices the most tends to win the most, so we practiced the most, and we won a lot.” Simplistic brilliance!
Good luck on the field and thank you for your comment.
I coach a majors softball team, 11′s and 12′s, and I try to be extremely fair to my kids. Unless a kid is not paying attention or trying at practice, or is not trying to use the fielding and hitting things that we work on in practice, they all get to play any number of positions. I actually go so far as to keep a chart of who plays where, and who sits, and how much, for each game. We don’t win every game, but my goal is to get them to all enjoy the game and want to play again next year. If you work hard as a coach, and work fundamentals with the kids, you can make a serviceable ball player out of most kids, at least in LL softball. Will they be superstars? Not most of them, but the ones who possess above average talent will show that, even if they don’t play every inning at shortstop. It is very rewarding to have a kid play an inning at short, where she may never have had the opportunity before, and watch her field a ball cleanly, come up and throw the runner out……that one time means a whole bunch to that kid, and probably boosts her confidence immeasurably. You have to be prepared for her to go “wickets” on the next one, but that is part of the coaching. There is also the school of thought that it is a “rec” league, and all the parents pay the same amount. Why should their daughter, who works just as hard, play two innings in the outfield, and then get splinters? However, I do respect that other coaches run their teams the way they run their teams, and it is what it is, but I know for sure that my kids and their parents, enjoy the season more when everyone gets a chance. When Suzie asks if she can catch, and has shown at practice that she is willing to drop and block, why not put the gear on her for an inning? The worst that could happen is that she lets a ball go by, and a run scores and later, you end up losing by a run………That is the end of the world, eh?
There is an important point being missed here. This level of Baseball, (little league minors or majors) is NOT about winning, it’s about education. A coach that plays a kid the minimum, is simply not doing his or her job. Parents need to work with their kids to be sure, but a coach is there to pick up where the parents expertise is either lacking, or ineffectual, or even when they simply aren’t involved like they should be (these kids aren’t throw away after all, it’s not their fault they have crappy parents.) What I see more often than not, is not coaching, but little children running around in ,men’s bodies, thinking of little else but how they can set their team up to win. That is truly pathetic, I will never understand how a coach can feel good about him/herself, when stacking a team full of 10-12 year olds and just disregarding the players that need the most help. As I’ve said, it takes a tiny tiny person to sustain this sort of mentality.
My son and I play about every night after I get off work. Last year he finally got a coach that rotated his players fairly so he got lots of play time, guess what, he only struck out 3 times all year and his fielding was great. So much so that our coach couldn’t believe the other coaches had been sitting him constantly. My boy’s problem is nerves, and I can’t seem to get these tiny little men to understand that, that’s not something I can teach in the backyard to get over, he has to do it.
Look, the biggest problem with little league just about everywhere I’ve been, is, you have the old high school jock mentality running around in a mans body, and they think of very little else but winning.
This issue can be eliminated easily, you take the ridiculous “minimum” play time rule away and you make them rotate right down the roster for substitutes, when they get to the bottom, they start over. Simple and effective. And don’t give me, well we’re just worried about your kid getting hurt nonsense. I payed my money, and I signed all the releases, I know what the risks are, play my boy so he can have a great summer, let him succeed or fail on how he played, not because you think he should ride the bench and never gave him a chance.
BallCoach, let me start by saying, it’s not that we have a difference of opinion, it’s that from my perspective, you’re wrong at a very fundamental level, and have placed yourselves in a completely indefensible position.
I coach a 12 player major softball team. I have 6 very good players, some who use their spare time to improve their game above and beyond practice, in addition to school work and other obligations. The other six are not very good… Why should I sit a player who perfoms at a high level and makes personal sacrifice to improve their skills, and play one who does not?
Because that’s the obligation you signed up for when you decided to coach a baseball “TEAM.”
Let me put this in perspective, your job is to coach, you are a teacher in a game that we all love called baseball. If your child was in the bottom four of his/her math class, and the teacher decided to spend all his time on the kids that were good at math, would you be OK with that? Of course not, it would be a lot easier to be sure, but any parent worth his salt would not only help their kid but expect the teacher to do the same thing, that’s the job. Coaching is the same thing, it’s a whole lot easier to win with all the good kids playing and keeping the kids that need extra help on the bench, but it’s lazy, and it certainly isn’t coaching, not good coaching anyway.
I appreciate the perspective of the parents of the children who lack skills, but I don’t believe I should sit the kids who play well at the expense of others. I’m not trying to punish the less skilled by playing them the minimum, but I won’t punish the skilled by sitting them to allow the less skilled playing time above the minimum.
This is the most indefensible of all your statements. So, you’re saying that rotating your kids (they are a team after all) evenly throughout the year is some how less fair than sitting the same 4 kids all year long, for no other reason than they aren’t as good? Sitting kids evenly is not punishment, sitting the same 4 or 6 all the time can be interpreted no other way than punishment. If you have 4 kids that need a lot of work, guess what, work with them, it’s not supposed to be easy, it’s supposed to be frustrating, infuriating and above all else, wonderful for everyone involved. Your going out of your way to make it miserable for the kids you classify as “children who lack skills.”
Little league is not about winning, it’s about education in the game of baseball, and if you’re good at coaching, and work hard with all the kids, winning will just happen, with the “WHOLE TEAM”, including, as you say the “children who lack skills.”
Softball Coach,
Great comment, thank you for contributing. I guess I would not agree though that Little League is just “Rec ball”. I also would submit that you are not teaching kids how to win and what it takes as a team to win. I agree w/ you that when you have a shot to give a player who has been working hard at something a shot, you should do so, but not at the cost of the game. What are you teaching? We all get to feel good while we lose?
Ironically, in minors and the fall season, I coach exactly the same way! But I do believe that Little League has three seasons for a reason. Fall for developmental, spring for competitive, and all-stars for hyper competitive. I also think that at age 11/12 players need to begin learning the finer points of a position. This cannot be done if you are moving them all around. Again, I want them to know a little about every position so I move them around in the fall season, but I want to know their main position for that season inside and out, so they need to play it, make the mistakes there, learn from them and correct them. Then, you will win games. Winning is the byproduct, not the objective.
The Little League Coach.
Eric,
Great comments. However, I do feel your experience/perception are not a true reflection of the program as a whole. In fact, more often than not, the parent coaching does not have athletic experience. I get this complaint more than any other. However, I do disagree that Little League Majors is NOT about winning. Little League has three seasons, fall, spring, and all-stars. The fall is instructional, the spring competitive, and the All-Stars hyper-competitive. This is a great format in my mind.
In our league we do make it mandatory to play your players almost equally in the fall seasons. Personally, I do it when playing other leagues and games don’t count towards our in-house standings. However, when playing against an “in house team” with a bigger trophy and an entry into our district’s tournament of champions on the line, I would be doing the kids who have worked hard to hone their skills and become the best in the league/district an injustice by not attempting to win the games. We have 30 team in our small league and I can only think of one “high school jock” coaching a team, and he is one of our best coaches. All the other coaches are parents who work hard to perfect their abilities in order to help the kids perfect their skills and build character. Maybe we are the anomaly, but I doubt it. I have direct contact with every league in our district and they seem configured just like us.
Remember, when we played Little League, or at least me, we had no minimum play at all. Paying gives you the right to participate in the organization and you agree to play by their rules. That is all your money gets you. In fact, the person sitting next to your child playing 6 innings may not have paid a dime because they couldn’t afford it, but they have the sames rules as everyone in the league. It sounds like you are making the effort to make your child better and because of that, he is being rewarded with playing time. His hard work is being rewarded AND he is being taught that if you commit yourself to excellence you can achieve it. Isn’t this what Little League is all about? Using your minimum play rule, would he ever have learned such great life skills? Unlikely. This is the system at work, not the system failing.
The Little League Coach
Eric,
Very insightful again. I would agree, you work with EVERY kid all the time and those that need extra work and are willing to put in the time to perfect their art, you work with even more. There is nothing more rewarding than seeing a kid who is struggling smack a game winning double! However, I disagree w/ your statement “Little league is not about winning, it’s about education in the game of baseball” the patch ever Little Leaguer wears on their uniform says “Character, Courage, Loyalty”, where in there does it say “education in the game of baseball”?
The Little League Pledge says “I trust in God, I love my country, and will respect its laws. I will play fair and strive to win, but win or lose, I will always do my best.” Herein there is a direct reference to “striving to win.” The coach must strive to win as well, at least in the spring and all-star season. The fall instructional season, while losing the game, provides the training for the spring to win the games.
The Little League Parent/Volunteer Pledge reads ” I will teach all children to play fair and do their best, I will positively support all managers, coaches, and players, I will respect the decisions of the umpires, I will praise a good effort despite the outcome of the game.” Again, no reference to “education in the game of baseball”. However, there IS a reference to “positively support all managers, coaches, and players.” I don’t think the absence of ANY mention of the game of baseball is accidental here. Because, Little League is about so much more than baseball, and allowing players who don’t work hard to get better to take the place of those who do because it’s “fair” does not build any of the redeeming qualities of Character, Courage or Loyalty.
I do agree you that “winning will just happen.” It is the byproduct of hard work, dedication, commitment, loyalty, courage, and character. I appreciate your comments here and think your son has actually benefited from the system that you are condemning. Ask yourself, would he have worked as hard had he simply been given “equal and fair playing time?”
The Little League Coach
Little League Coach,
I didn’t say that we never win, but we are certainly not going to go undefeated. I suppose that I am not as concerned with winning as I should be, it is just not my way. I would rather stress good fundamentals, to all of my kids, and as long as they are working hard, they will get to play, and not just minimum play, and not just in the outfield. Let me reiterate that I am not judging anyone, most coaches should be commended for stepping up. I have no real dog in this fight, because both of my daughters make the All Star team every year, and if I had a different philosophy, they would both probably pitch as much as possible, and they would certainly never leave the infield. When they play for me, however, they face the same rotation as all the other kids. Only poor practice habits, or behavioral issues will stand in the way of each kid getting a chance to play their equal time. My oldest daughter now plays Middle School ball, and Seniors level Little League. Her current LL coach uses her at pitcher, and first base, and she plays every inning of every game. I am not very happy with it, because I see Suzie in left, then right, etc., but I am not coaching that team. He knows my approach, we have both coached in our town for years, but it is his team, not mine.
Erik, that’s brilliant. My son plays high school ball now, but for several years played club with a coach who takes kids who can’t catch, can’t hit, are small, are overweight, etc. By scheduling lots of games and letting everyone play, the kids actually get to the point where the teeam is competitive. Of course, some of the kids are better players than others and, to the extent they work hard, get more playing time. However, the coach seamlessly works all the kids in and leaves everyone feeling good about themselves. This is a truly gifted coach and a wonderful program.
Ellen,
Ironically, in tournament/club ball, we bat everyone and rotate out on Saturdays and play Sundays with best players. If we only have 10 players, we play everyone and rotate positions. Meanwhile, I find many hardcore coaches in tournaments that don’t play kids a single inning.
The Little League Coach
“Daddy Ball” is what I have heard it referred when coaches only play thier child. As a board member, team mom, scorekeeper and a parent of two children playing a Little League organization, I have seen it all. I also know that some children just are not as athletic as other children. Some dont hit that ball as hard, some dont run as fast, some dont throw as far, some just cannot catch. There comes a certain time and at a certain level of play, that it becomes a more competitive sport. Some players are not at that level. Parents have to begin realizing this. I have been on both sides. My child has played the minimum required and at times played all but two innings. Once a player reaches the level where other kids are pitching to them…it is competitive. The managers, coaches and players want to win, and so do the parents. Well that is unless their child is riding the pine and playing the regulated minimum playtime. As parents, do you rely only on teachers in school to educate your child. Or when they may be struggling, we help them at home. Well, do the same with baseball. Now this is where you may be offended…take your blinders off and realize your child may not be playing more because they really just are not as good as someone else on the team. Take them home, and help them! Have a catch, long toss, watch a professional game and talk about what is going on, take them to the batting cage. STOP blaming the managers and coaches, who volunteer their time to manage and coach these children, that your child isnt getting enough attention or enough playing time because they are not good enough. That is the problem with society today, let’s point and blame someone else for something anyone of else can help with!!!
Cher,
Very passionate response! Thank you! Maybe the coaches sons/daughters are often the best because they practice harder? I know my kids never miss practice, yet I rarely have a practice w/ 100% attendance. Just sayin’.
The Little League Coach
I have been following my grandsons baseball experiance from the time he payed T-ball. I find that coaches in most cases do not follow a rotation that gives every kid a playing opportunity. It is very difficut to encourge our kids to be a team players when he or she knows that favoritism is wide spread. Little league Officials need to monitor coaches more closely which to my knowledge is not being done. Coaches need to understand that there is more at state then just winning a game.
I agree with you there. I have seen teams in the past that do not have 100% attendance. I know in the organization that my children play in, coaches will pick up players to make practice, if a parent cannot get them there. These coaches care and want kids at practice. I have seen them take kids who struggle and work individually with these players. Sometimes, no amount of practice can give the skill another player has. They all may know the game, know the fundamentals of how to play the game, but ultimately children are still going to play at different levels, have different skill sets, some are just born athletes. Spring baseball is a competetive sport, ultimately deciding who makes an all-star team. My boys’ team, they play fairly equal playing time, those children who are “athletes” play more, but the entire team is having fun. In the end, that is all that matters. This team loves baseball!! I do feel bad for those parents, who cannot have the same experience, I have as a parent…and that is with one child who sits on the bench more and one that is in the field playing more.
James,
Thank you for your input! I love when grandparents are involved in their grandchildren’s activities, you are to be commended for your support, I know your grandkids are better because of it. I have a question for you though, isn’t the definition of being a “team player” doing what is asked of you, when it is asked of you, to the best of your ability? I am a huge Washington Capitals fan, and their captain, Alex Ovechkin has not been performing well lately. In fact, his defense has been pathetic. However, his offensive play is still dominant. He took himself out of the games when they are leading and only plays now when they are tied or behind. His performance has improved and they started winning in the playoffs.
I have a selfless player on my tournament team that once sent me a text that read something like this when I asked her if she would mind playing a different position to allow another player to join our team. “I will do whatever my team needs me to do because I am a team player.”.
As far as monitoring playing time per the Little League rulebook, I guarantee you the other coach is making sure that your grandson’s coach is playing his players according to the rules. Managers watch this like a hawk! I agree, there is MUCH more at stake than just winning a game, teaching life lessons is crucial. What better life lesson than, “work hard, practice hard, play hard, be rewarded” could be taught? What is the alternative? “Show up when you want, goof off, but still get equal playing time in the name of fairness.” Children raised with the prior will certainly become the leaders of tomorrow, those with the latter, well, hopefully they will learn life’s hard lessons somewhere else, because their coaches are failing them.
Thank you again for your input.
The Little League Coach
Cher,
Well said! I would only add, the parents “who cannot have the same experience” can step up and volunteer to coach any time they like. Every league is always searching for great coaches and managers.
The Little League Coach
I am a mother of twin boys and of course they love all sports. They have both been in little league since t-ball. I have been an assistant coach when needed and never missed a game. Last year my sons were signed up and all fees paid and I never heard from anyone about practices, everyone else was practicing, e-mailed some people, never heard anything. 2 weeks prior to the start of season I receive an e-mail that my sons cannot play because no parents stepped up to coach. I was surprised because I was not contacted to coach. It was my understanding that when my boys were 11 they would go into the Major League. There is one coach in the Majors and he has coached for 10 + years, so why would I volunteer? I would have helped if he asked but I would definately not step on his toes. When I questioned this I was told that my son was in the minors not the majors because they changed the rules this year and made a special “elite” team and that Majors were now only 12 year olds. I said, “who is on this special team and what is the age?” They said all 11 year olds will play on a team called, “elite” and that after the 11 yr olds they will pick 10, 9, etc. until the team is full. I said, my kids are 11 they should be on team “elite” they said, “All the positions are filled and they have been practicing for weeks now, so it is too late to change the roster.” If your kids want to play, they need to go back to minors. Trouble is that the kids who should be in minors (ages 10, 9, 8) went to team “elite” and those were the kids whose dads were coaches. There were 7, 11 year olds who did not get on team “elite”. There were 2 dads out of that 7 kids and myself that would have coached this team “elite” but were told that the coaches were already picked and of course already practiced with the kids so they could not change it at this time. Those kids dropped out of baseball all together. We had 2 parents who stepped up to coach, they split the teams 10 & 11 and 8 & 9 year olds. The boys were able to play and had a good time. However, there was a lot of backlash at school and other places by the kids that were picked to be on the “elite” team. They were telling the other kids that they could not play with them on the playground and that they were not even good enough to play on the “elite” team so why should they be able to play with them at all. Then there was the backlash on the playing field when parents were mad because there 8 year old was playing on a field with an 11 year old and 11 year olds are clearly have more advantage of skill and hit harder. This same group of “elite” players are not in the Major league playing on a team with the 12 year olds. My son even though he makes all the practices, plays hard, practices hard and is an average player, gets little or no playing time. He sits the bench while the 10 & 11 year olds get all the good positions and play time regardless of whether or not they came to practice. Kids will only get better with more play time. It is a fact that the more a child sits on the bench the more he loses confidence and skill. The 10 & 11 year olds get to play again on the majors for the next 1 to 2 years, my son does not. Is this preparing him for any future ball playing? I don’t think so. If you watch the game my son does no worse or no better than any of the other kids. I am not just being a mom. I really look fairly at the game and he really is not a bad player, he is average. There is only 1 extra player on his team, so it is my son or one of two other players that sit the bench. It is not hard to see that favorite players or coaches kids always get to play whether or not they are good. Why not eliminate that all together? Make a rule that mandates all players rotate one inning on the bench. It really would not make a big difference to the game and all the kids would have a good self esteem. How do coaches say, “This is for the good of the team”? When the team is ALL the kids. Team means all the kids…Not just the coaches kids or their friends kids. It’s all a crock of crap. I get that you want to promote the kids to play their best and such, but then bench the kids fairly. They clearly do not, so they should be made to play them all to eliminate any problems like this. I did not pay good money to see other kids play baseball. This really puts parents in a no win situation because if I make him quit than he will be considered a non-team player. He is always jumping up to get bats, get balls, warm players up in the field and in the pitching box, helping the catchers put their gear on etc. He is practicing on his own time, etc. He has a huge heart for baseball. During one game the first & second base players were dropping balls so the coach got mad, yelled at the kids then pulled them out. He put my son and the other “bench warmer” in as punishment. He said if they could not get their head in the game they could not play. My son and the other “bench warmer” did a great job. Especially since they had no inner field experience (They both play left field when they do get to play.) They made catches, and both got players out on the bases. My son was not recognized for any thing he did and the boys that made mistakes were put back on the bases the next game. So basically they used my son as punishment? How is that fair play? How is that not bully behavior? Basically, the coach said, “Since you made a mistake were gonna play the sucky kids and if we lose it is because you made me play the sucky kids so it will be your fault.” How in any persons mind is this ok? I think that it is the male ego and all about winning at any cost. I thought little league was suppose to teach life lessons like sharing, caring, teamwork, practice hard, play hard, and if you play fair and do all these things you will be rewarded by having a winning team. What about taking a kid like mine who has a HUGE heart for baseball and putting him under your wing and helping him to be a better player, instead of making him feel like a loser. What about that? One of my boys won’t even play any more. He said, “Why do I want to play? All I do is sit on the bench. It’s not fun for me.” So basically they sucked the fun out of it for one of my kids already. How is that ok? I think the mentality of the little league program has been very skewed from what it originally started out to be, so they should change the rules to protect the kids. There are too many men that are in it strictly for the win. Don’t tell me that this behavior is in the best interest of kids. That is not true. It is never in the best interest of kids to make them feel less than what they are, ever! When they ask you after the game questions like, Mom doesn’t the coach like me? Am I really that bad? Am I a bad player? Granted I think like a mom, but commons sense is the key here, and common sense tells me that being a coach-bully is not the best for the kids. By reading these posts I see a common thread of coaches kids, etc. always being able to play when they clearly should not. Seems to be the norm, why not just make a rule that would protect this from happening? What would it truly hurt to have a fair rotation? Parents and coaches would have to share the spotlight? Get real, we are living in a different world than when we were little. We need to protect our kids more than ever before.
Hi Cheryl,
One question. Is this Little League Baseball or another organization?
Rick
Yes, they reference this on their website and in all the paperwork.
I would contact your District Administrator and have them step in. If everything you state here is true, you have some legitimate complaints.
1. They cannot turn kids away for ANY reason. If they don’t have coaches they need to put teams together, call a meeting of the team and have a parent assigned to run the team. If they can’t do that, the board has to coach the team until someone is located. Not having a place for a player registered by the deadline is not acceptable under any circumstance.
2. They cannot set up a 12YO team and an 11YO team and they cannot call them “elite”. They must adhere to the Little League draft system.
3. ALL 12YO’s MUST play majors
As far as the rotation, as long as the coach is playing the players at least minimum play I cannot condemn them.
Cheryl, I concur with your statements, and am very disappointed with the little league program. What it could represent to all kids and what has come to represent for a few kids, are not what the program is about.
I would ask all of you who seem willing to continue this charade of excuse making for a very dark stain on an otherwise stellar program, a question.
The minimum play rule was clearly put in place so every child got to play each game, it was never intended to be applied to the same 4 kids every game, do you agree?. Furthermore, what kind of a man would actually come to that conclusion, and then apply it to 8 through 12 year old children, and then like many of you here, actually make an attempt at justifying it?
Their could be a whole host of reasons why this child isn’t up to your standards, perhaps their parents didn’t play ball, that’s why they defer to you, or the most unfortunate, because their parents are crap, and they are in desperate need of some leadership. I do not have a diamond in my back yard, and their are a number of things he has to learn by playing, when you apply the minimum play rule to him every game, all he’s thinking about is not screwing up so you don’t put him back on the bench, when he should be concentrating on the game, there is very little chance of him not making a mistake, you’ve made it crystal clear how you fell about him, and if you don’t feel that way, tell me how else a 10 year old child is going to interpreter it.
I would add, children in this age range are far too different from one to the next to be labeled as unskilled, or bench warmers. Secondly, if you’re playing them the minimum, you have almost no idea what their ability is.
When one kid gets 50 or so at bats a season, and another gets 14, they simply can not be on the same level, as a matter of fact, they’ve regressed, because not only have you not only allowed them to practive their skill on a full diamond with teammates, but you’ve robbed them of confidence. You’ve made up your mind about their ability, and you’re actively seeking to reach those ends. Unlike what some of you have said, you can learn what you need to from the bench in a fair rotation, not some excuse making scenario to justify ruining a child’s summer.
It is so bad on my child’s team this year with this minimum play rule, that when you look at the kids sitting on the bench, the 4 subs, sit down at the end of the bench, and the rest of the team sit at the other. That should make any coach cry, and if not that, then ashamed.
But, back to my original question, how do you justify applying the minimum play rule to the same kids all the time, and how do you look them in the eye each time you do it?
I commented on my approach to coaching back in this thread, and reading some of these posts only affirms to me that I have it right. The game should be about teaching all the kids how to play, and not concern ourselves to much with winning the game. However, as I have stated in our league meetings, the only way to take the competitiveness out of the games, is to not keep score, and I am a jock, so I am not advocating that, certainly. But, I am also not so hung up on getting a bigger trophy that I ruin what might be one of the few things that some of these kids are involved in. All of the players on my teams get the same amount of time, overall, because I keep track of it. The three kids who sat two innings (NEVER consecutively) in the last game, will NOT be the kids who sit consecutively in the next game. It is humorous to me that “coaches” on this thread like to hide behind the old “If the coach is playing the kids the minimum playing time, there is no problem:” line…………..Play the kids, actually coach them, and help them become better ball players……if you go .500, or worse, well, guess what? Tomorrow, you still have to get up and go to work, just like if you had gone undefeated……nothing substantial will have changed in your life, but something might in the life of that kid that got to play 3b for an inning…….Now, here comes another old coaches line…”Johnny can’t play third, he wouldn’t be safe there”……..wait for it……..wait for it………
I once had a player who was playing minimums in softball. She came to me and asked, “why am I playing minimums”. I asked her is she really wanted the answer to that question because it might hurt, she did. I answered her honestly, because you need to hit better. Now mind you, SHE came to me because HER parents made her! They told her, if you are going to solve this problem, you are going to do it on your own.
Her tearful response? “Will you teach me?” my response, absolutely! She began working extra hard, took private lessons every week during the months of July/August when the temp was literally 98+. She worked, and worked and worked and worked. This year she was the starting short stop for the high school team AND she is batting 2nd on our High School tournament team.
Your really think she would have worked that hard if I had played her just to be fair? I guarantee you she would not have been half as successful in her short life nor would she be the leader she is today.
Little League has the fall instructional program, the spring competitive season, and the all-star hyper competitive season. This is for a reason and the life lessons learned FAR outweigh any of the athletic lessons. Ask my 27 year old about a game, he can’t remember it, ask him how hard he had to work to earn his starting position, he will detail it!
That is what Little League is all about, life lessons taught through Character, Courage, and Loyalty.
The Little League Coach
Softball Coach,
Quick question. How do you only sit girls for 1 inning at a time in Major Softball? A starter cannot reenter a game until their sub has played 6 outs and batted 1 time. That is at least 2 innings on the bench. What am I missing in your comment?
The Little League Coach
The more we shelter children from every disappointment,
the more devastating future disappointments will be.
- Fred G. Gosman
“The more we shelter children from every disappointment,
the more devastating future disappointments will be.
- Fred G. Gosman”
I would submit, that sticking them on the bench is sheltering them far more from a disappointment than letting them play. I would be curious to know how you could interpret that any other way?
I don’t have a problem with my boy failing, falling down, or making a game losing mistake, but for the love of Pete, give him the same chance at those character building failures and successes that the rest of the team gets. None of this can happen while he’s sitting on the bench.
Again, this is just another excuse for a coach to put winning before teaching.
Eric,
Thank you again for your comments. I would submit to you that your player has the same opportunity to earn his position as everyone else on the team. 99.9% of coaches are playing the players they feel earned their spot and give them the best opportunity to win the game. Throughout the season, these players change and dynamics ebb and flow.
If you were on a team that never practiced where your player actually did NOT have any opportunity to shine and earn a position, then I would agree with you. However, you when something is earned it is much more treasured than if it is given and the rewards far more enjoyable. The kids that don’t get to play? They learn that when you don’t work as hard, you don’t get rewarded, and SOMETIMES in life, even if you work your butt off, others are simply better at this given time.
You will be amazed how the stars of the 12 year olds are NOT the stars of the 16 year olds and how the less coordinated 12 year old suddenly becomes athletic and know exactly how to earn his spot because he failed at it before! Without failure, there can be no success.
I have only seen one Little League coach that does anything but a handful of practices before the season starts. Last year was the first time I’ve seen a coach that practiced after the season started. (coincidentally, last year was the year my son was able to work hard and be one of the better players on the team.) Every other year (6 now) we have no practices once the games begin. The coaches have made up their mind, and they know who’s going to be riding the pine for the remainder of the season.
Again, if he was given a chance to fail, I’d be OK, but he’s not given a chance period.
You talk about earning your spot. My son has never missed a practice, has never not stayed late. He does not complain about the bench although it’s plain for all to see.
2 of our coached have kids on the team, they also play on a travel team. They didn’t come to a single practice before the season started (nor did their Fathers/coaches, and they leave our league team whenever they have a game that conflicts to go with there travel team. Yet they have never sat, not once. That tells me that their Fathers are using our league games as practice for their travel playing.
I understand what you mean by earning your spot, and I agree, however, in every case but one, I’ve seen, your scenario sounds lovely, but it’s just not applicable. From what I see here, the other seems the norm.
Eric,
Sounds like you need to join the board and make some changes then because in our league we practice for 6 weeks prior to the season starting, have clinics in the off-season, and the level of our players is amazing! All of them! We have kids who sit out on our teams that would easily play in other leagues. Change starts with you!
As far as Travel vs. Little League the protocol is as follows:
LL Practice vs T Practice go to T Practice
T Practice vs LL Game go to LL Game
LL Game vs Travel Game go to travel game
I bet those players who missed practice were out playing baseball and that is acceptable.
We live in a town that plays an intertown schedule, and long before I was involved, all the towns passed local by laws allowing for free subbing. We can take a player out in the second inning, and put her back in the third at any spot in the order, and take anyone else out. Our rosters are typically very small rosters, so all the towns play continuous batting order as well.
Softball Coach,
Gotcha! We do that as well in our inter-league games. Our intra-league games however determine who will make it to the District Tournament of Champions, and the only “fair” way to play those games is by putting the best players on the field to win them. By playing the whole line up inter-leaguing we give all our players more opportunities to play in the field and bat so when they are faced w/ their 1 at-bat of the championship game they can be contributors and not automatic outs. Likewise, they have seen numerous plays at the position they are likely to play as well. I do believe that your by-laws are in conflict with Little League rules though if you can put them in different spots in the order during continuous batting order. We can make rules more stringent, not less. Do you mean anywhere on the field but the batting order stays the same?
I am sure that we would have to modify how we did things, if there was some sort of standings that were kept based on interleague play, but there is not. With regard to the by law, it was reviewed and approved by the region. I have found that LL is very accommodating when approached by a collective with the same goal. It has been my experience that the rules are often not as hard and fast as they might appear. Once you set the batting order for a particular game, those kids stay in that spot, but Judy might play an inning at 2b, an inning in Center, an inning on the bench, an inning at 1b, might pitch an inning, and the 6th in left. As I have stated earlier, a kid has to show me in practice that they are willing to drop and block balls in the dirt, if they don’t, and really just want to strap on the gear, then I typically will let them catch in practice til they prove themselves. And, obviously, everyone can’t pitch. Only the kids who stay after practice and work with me on their pitching, or practice at home (preferably both) get a shot to pitch in games……..Pitching is the key, and I have enough respect for the game to understand that watching a pitcher walk in 5 runs does no one any good.
“As far as Travel vs. Little League the protocol is as follows:
LL Practice vs T Practice go to T Practice
T Practice vs LL Game go to LL Game
LL Game vs Travel Game go to travel game “
This says, “if I take on more than I can handle, then drop all loyalty to what I can only guess you feel is the lesser valued teammates.” This is neither “Character nor Loyalty”
In the real world, (which you have stated LL helps get kids ready for, and I would concur) there are consequences for all our decisions, if we take on too much, we take responsibility for it. What we don’t do, is make an excuses for letting your friends, family, and coworkers down.
Eric, I would say that if a player chose the travel team over the LL team, then that might affect playing time with the LL team. However, since not playing the travel kids in your LL game might decrease the chance of winning the game, that probably does not happen. You make choices and you live with them. Character and Loyalty are important, as long as it doesn’t affect the teams chances of winning the game!! LOL!!! People just have different mindsets. We play interleague and you see the gamut of coaching styles…..
Softball Coach,
Rule 4.04 on page 65 of the rule book clearly allows continuous batting order in all divisions. The way you play is in line with the rules, not an exception. The fact that the district adopted it in every league is where you would require a bylaw. We don’t enforce this on other leagues and sometimes one league is batting 9 while the other is batting them all.
Like I said, we do this as well and none of my players sit more than 1 inning in a row as well. This is in every game in the fall and interleague games during the spring, or roughly 80% of the total games played. I think we are likely closer on this than we might think.
Eric,
That is a losing battle that will only cost you your best players. Travel ball and Little League must work together. We actually build schedules around each other. I would submit to you that if you worked 2 jobs and were the best employee at the job that paid half as much and you went to the job that paid double, the job that paid half as much would accommodate you. In fact, being there for all you can be is in fact loyal to your local community league. If you quit your league, that is not being loyal.
Eric,
Doesn’t the kid going to play travel ball free up space for the kid who might otherwise be sitting the bench? Isn’t it a win-win?
Coach,
Could you be missing the point by any farther?
Coach,
There is no way I can say this without sounding offensive, but I am so glad my children don’t value people, their jobs, and most to the point here, their teammates the way you advocate towards.
I can see both sides of the discussion between Little League Coach and Eric. I see what Eric is saying, I think that he would rather that the travel kids choose travel or LL. If they choose travel, they get to play at the “elite” level, and improve by playing better competition. Their absence creates more playing time for that kid who would be playing minimum time, because the travel kid happens to show, and take his pre-ordained spot at short!!! I can’t say that I disagree.
Regarding cont batting order, I am pretty certain that if one team is using it, both teams are supposed to. But I hate to debate rules, so that is what it is………To go cont batting order, when the other team does not, gives a competitive edge to the team that is only batting nine. The slugger in the four hole will get an extra at bat, that sort of thing. I like the cont order, cause even the kid who happens to be on the bench for an inning, is still in the game.
LL coaches analogy, regarding the jobs is not effective to me, because it is the “employee” (the player) who is paying, not the other way around, and the last time I checked, all the kids pay the same amount. If a player chooses to ante up and pay for travel, should not mean, to me, that that kid can come whenever he or she pleases, and simply take their spot on the mound. We have some travel kids as well, but haven’t really run into the conflicts we are discussing, most (all?) of them stretch themselves and make both teams’ events.
“I see what Eric is saying, I think that he would rather that the travel kids choose travel or LL. If they choose travel, they get to play at the “elite” level, and improve by playing better competition. “
Softball Coach,
I have no problem with them playing both teams, good for them and the extra work it takes to do so. But as in life, there are consequences for every decision.
Unfortunately, as is the case in the scenario we’re discussing, due to a coach wanting to win above all else, their decision adversely effects the children who have dedicated their time to the League game, and that simply is a shame.
Eric, I don’t disagree. But, as I am sure you know, there are plenty of people on the other side of the argument.
“To go cont batting order, when the other team does not, gives a competitive edge to the team that is only batting nine. The slugger in the four hole will get an extra at bat, that sort of thing”
True, which is why I am always flabbergasted when coaches say we HAVE to bat 9 if they are! Ridiculous. BTW, slugger in Little League should be in the 3 slot they will get many more at-bats over the course of a season.
“If a player chooses to ante up and pay for travel, should not mean, to me, that that kid can come whenever he or she pleases, and simply take their spot on the mound.”
I agree, never did I advocate they come and go as they please, I said they need to attend every Little League practice/game UNLESS based on the rules above that are commonly accepted.
In our area, the better players do not pay for travel organizations, they are recruited and play for free. How can a Little League team or coach expect them to ignore this great opportunity? Work together, fighting NEVER works. What’s it called, Synergy.
“Unfortunately, as is the case in the scenario we’re discussing, due to a coach wanting to win above all else, their decision adversely effects the children who have dedicated their time to the League game, and that simply is a shame”
No, that simply is life, and a great life lesson. If you don’t want to win, why keep score? Think the kids don’t want to win? Then why do they ride each other at school all day long?
LOL!! I said that same thing a long time ago…..Our minors division here can get overly competitive, and I stated at a meeting that if we really wanted to make it about instruction, and keep the competitiveness out of it, we could stop keeping score. I said this with my tongue firmly planted in cheek, because as we all know, the kids would still keep score………and it is a game, there is a winner and a loser. We seem to have different philosophies as to how to prepare the kids for that, but that is what makes it interesting.
With regard to the no pay travel scenario, that is certainly not the case here. It is very expensive, but that is a life lesson too…..
And thanks for the lesson in batting order setup, I was making an example; speaking in generalities. I can see where my posts would make me seem to be a bleeding heart liberal etc., but that is totally not the case, it has just been my experience in my coaching in all youth sports, that giving everyone opps, creates better teammates, and teaches lessons about life as well.
guys, a question…………What do you do when you have Travel kids who make the All Star team? Are they expected at All Star practices over Travel practices? what about on weekends, travel games or All Star practices?? We are running into this in our league, and am curious of your opinions………
Softball Coach,
Here is my opinion. If they are playing ball they are ok. As much as we would like to say they have to be at Little League practice, the fact is, they are doing everything in their power to make themselves as good as can be and deserve to be on the all-star team. They are not out goofing off, they are practicing or playing.
Most Little League teams practice every day, often two times a day, so missing a couple of practices isn’t that big of a deal. Again, as long as they are playing ball.
In our league, the Seniors division doesn’t play for almost 3 weeks after they are announced. We actually go play in tournaments to keep sharp. I give every player a “once a week” free pass to miss practice. Most of the time they get together and use it on Friday night, which I am fine with!
As I said before, you can’t win a fight w/ tournament ball, so you are much better off finding a way to coexist.
I have a coaching degree, and I totally disagree with the idea of benching future athletes. In our society, we throw away too many individuals that have the potential to go above and beyond, and therefor lacked the leaders that would see them through. Society has the perception that we should bench the weak or less skilled ones. I’m also a teacher, and if I treated my students bythis blogger’s philosophy, I would have a lot more drop outs or inmates. Great coaches and teachers NEVER give up on a kid. Period. There is always room for improvement. No one is perfect, and I guarantee if you asked this blogger to hit or catch right now, he/she would fail. Benching kids to teach them the game is probably the most ridiculous excuse for a coach who should never be coaching. If I “benched” my students for lacking knowledge, they would never get anywhere. What would they learn? Instead, I actively “coach” them, make them practice and “play,” and then the results come. Winning is not the goal in life. Learning from your mistakes and loses are what define a person or society. Parents, Never give up on your child. Make sure that they know that people and coaches are the “bench” that they are going to have to throw into the ” fire” of life. When they overcome this “bench,” then they have won the “game” in life. To add, Michael Jordan was benched by a coach who said he would never be good at basketball. Years later, he had that coach that said, “I will Never give up on you.” Don’t you wish you could have seen that former coach’s face. Ah, karma! Oh how the all-knowing inadequate parent coach who thought they knew the game, but inadvertently got “benched” when Jordan became famous. I’m sure this blogger will start out with “Thank you for your comments” and then try to counter with one of his/her philosophical little league references, but it doesn’t work like that. Good luck and “Thank you for your future response, but if I might say, it’s not good enough.”
Rob,
Thank you for your comments.
Please identify where in the article I said future athletes should be “benched”? Would you have all 12-15 players on the roster on the field at 1 time? Someone has to sit. Where in the article do I say to “throw away” the younger kids? In fact, the coach that put Michael Jordan on the JV team as a softmore rather than put him on the varsity bench did just the opposite!
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1193740/
Check out the sports illustrated article linked here for facts. He was NEVER BENCHED, in fact, 50 kids tried out any only 1 softmore made the team, a 6’7″ kid! MJ was a star on a great JV team that year.
Your comments are folklore that sound good and make great motivational stuff, but not fact. The facts always get in the way don’t they? ah karma.
Where do I say “give up” on the kids? Just the opposite, I say, NEVER quit, work harder and succeed!
It is very obvious that you have no desire to debate the actual article and merits of hard work,
dedication, and the inevitable success that follow, in fact, you say no response will be good enough. On that we agree, because your comments were based on falsehoods and not the article in question.
Thank you,
The Little League Coach
Out of all of the posts you have written, I can tell my post stirred you up the most. Good! Apparently, you didn’t read the article in its entirety.
“Over the next three decades Jordan would become a world-class collector of emotional wounds, a champion grudge-holder, a magician at converting real and imagined insults into the rocket fuel that made him fly. If he had truly been cut that year, as he would claim again and again, he wouldn’t have had such an immediate chance for revenge. But in fact his name was on the second list, the jayvee roster, with the names of many of his fellow sophomores. Jordan quickly became a jayvee superstar.”
You give nonchalant, rhetorical, uneducated, and biased advice to people who actually want to help their children. From your tone in your article, you are a person who didn’t fulfill the dreams others had for you, so you had “coach” kids to make yourself feel empowered. There is a time and place for failure for these kids, and at the age of 11 and 12, we need to be building skills, self image, and esteem. They have their entire lives to be “benched” by people like you.
PS: If you were to use inferencing, you could tell that he had to overcome being cut/benched/or etc… to become great. What if he would have listened to “experts” like you? I don’t disagree that hard work and practice are essential to becoming great. I don’t agree with the fact that you are misleading parents from a biased opinion about coaches and managers always having the best interest at heart. Please!
Rob,
Again, the word “benched” appears 0 times in this article. Base your comments on facts if you wish me to respond. Also, I have NEVER once claimed to be an “expert.” Another fact that gets in the way of your false accusations. I am a Little League Coach, nothing more, nothing less. Proud to be. You did ignore my question though, would you have all 15 players on the field at 1 time?
I am having the same problem but add to the problem that my son is a miltitary child who is new and unknown and lost his confidence. The whole team but 3 all play on the coaches travel team. And two player are very unsportsmenly(jerks) to him. The coach makes him sit out every other inning and ‘ his’ kids play infield every inning. They make errors non stop!!! My point is not that my kid is that super player it is that he can make errors just as well as those kids. There are some great players on his team but let’s face it the chance that they even play high school ball is slim let alone, go pro, I think the best thing for these boys would be to lose some games. That is where the lessons are learned. My son has always been a soild play but is in a slump, but they don’t know that because his Dad is serving his country and he has not always lived in the same neighborhood like them.. He has very little chance to build his confance because he is just the ” extra” kid. The coach says all the right things but is showing them something different. “His” kids make errors and stike out but they never sit down, and he hides behind the rules, it shows poor character. And the boys are going to pay for it because there is always someone better than you, in school, in the office, on the team. I think that the regular season is where everyone should have time to build confance and get game time and then let him ride the bench for the whole playoff if he has not risen to the occasion. Nothing gambled nothing gained.
Jackie,
First, thank you for your husband’s service to our country. He is the reason we can freely have these debates.
Thank you for your comments. I agree that during the regular season all players should get equal play. In fact, that is how we run our teams. We want every player to have seen as much live pitching and as much play on the field as possible so they are ready at all times. However, the point of this article was to simply point out the board’s hands are tied. If a manager is following the rules, there is nothing that can be done. When playoff time comes, all our players are ready not just the starters.
Thank you for your input.
The Little League Coach
I read through about half of the comments, and I see a common theme. Why does the coaches kid play the entire game.
Let me give my thoughts about the Majors and older. My son doesn’t play all 6 innings because I am the coach. He plays them because he has worked extremely hard, we practice hours upon hours every week outside of practice and games, he has attended baseball camps, went through paid personal instruction, earned the respect of his peers by being a leader, and not skipping a beat. He’s a pitcher and a catcher, both hard positions to find talent in. He doesn’t miss practice, actually he’s there about 45 minutes early, and leaves about 30 minutes after everyone else because I have to stay to make sure all the kids are picked up, and to maintain the field. I don’t drop my kid off to practice and come back when its over. I am practice.
I am also a board member, and we regularly do maintenance on the fields on the weekends when everyone else is enjoying theirs. We work our butt off so that the leagues are there for the community to enjoy. We stay at board meetings until 10:30 at night to make the league better. We sacrifice weekends during registration time, clinics, training. We don’t get any pay, we don’t get any discounts, we do it because we love to do it.
At lower levels; Tball, minor, little major, I can understand equal play time. Majors, Intermediate, Jr divisions, in my opinion, this is preparation for high school. If you think little Jonny is guaranteed a spot on the HS team because he played 8 years of Little League, you are dead wrong. If you are in a small school there may be only a Varsity team, probably 11 players. No Freshman, Junior Varsity, most of the kids will be cut. If you as a parent are complaining of playing time, and you are not out there ball in hand with your child, you are wrong.
In a perfect world, we would have 9 kids, no one would miss practice, no one would be sick, late, out of town, tired, we would have 3 retired MLB All-Star coaches on every team, that’s a pretty good ratio, 3-1. Should have plenty of 1 on 1 time. It’s not a perfect world. We barely can get enough coaches to field the teams we have. We beg and plead, to get the ones we do have.
Ryan,
Well said.
The Little League Coach
That is funny, I thought we were preparing our boys for a life long love of sports and physical fitness not to become Pro players. And you must remember not everyone is helping on the field but maybe they are helping at your local schools, churches, or homeless shelter. I think recreation ball should be just that.
I’m going to have to agree with Jackie on this one.
Ryan, it’s great that you do so much extra, I too am very active, however, as great a guy as you obviously are, that makes not one bit of difference, or has any affect on a child who’s parents for the many hundreds of reasons there could be, can’t reach your level of involvement. It certainly isn’t the child’s fault at this age, oh a time will come when it is, but that’s not this day.
Sports, and the mentality that so frequently accompanies them, can be very exclusionary, very, if you’re weak or under-skilled, or come from a place that puts you behind others, you are simply thrown to the side, or as is more pertinent here, put on the bench. At this level, (12 years being the oldest in my particular circumstances) their is no excuse, other than punishment, for a child to be playing the minimum every game. Subs should be rotated fairly through all players. When you sub the same kids, at this age, you create a pecking order among players, and you destroy team cohesion, not to mention leave yourself wide open when you are forced to play these kids. I will never not be crushed, at seeing the four subs down at one end of the bench, and the “team” down at the other. That should make any coach want to cry. It certainly does me, and it destroys a child’s confidence in more than just silly baseball, they will carry it for many years to come.
I didn’t play a single game of catch with my Dad as a child, (not an exaggeration) and I was punished for playing sports, I did however manage to play one year of baseball, and one year of basketball, (which no member of my family attended a single game) I’m certain you can imagine how bad I was. My point is not to cry about my circumstances, but to showcase where some kids come from, and how impossible it was for me, and others like me, to be any place close to the level of a player that someone like you would play/treat equally. My case is extreme I realize, none-the-less, sports can be such an amazing tool for teaching, and giving a child that very first taste of what it’s like to accomplish something through hard work, that very first real boost to their self esteem, and the warmth of camaraderie (a lesson I didn’t discover until my late 20s). However, it takes a coach who is more about the children, and has enough empathy to encompass all the possible places a child comes from, to do it right.
Ryan, I disagree, this is little league, not HS, those kids that are going to play in HS will still play, and rotating them as subs will have no effect on that. This simple minded excuse that we must prepare them for disappointment, by destroying a child’s summer and confidence, is nothing short of abuse. I’d also add, the theme here is not about the coaches kid getting to play all the time, the theme here is play time for all the kids, not just the talented ones, or experienced ones, or ones that come from households that may dedicate more time to the game. It’s also about equal play time for the kids that are terrible players, or who’s parents could really care less, or who don’t have a clue about the game.
Eric,
Great reply! Thank you very much! Very true and I agree completely during the fall season. However, the spring Little League season is meant to be competitive and teach those life lessons. Is your life lesson that no matter what your ability you get to play? Why not, try harder, work harder, succeed, and you get to play more? BTW, no players play minimums EVERY game, that is an exhageration. There are multiple opportunities to get players in such as when players are not there, sick, games are out of control etc. No player plays minimums only. The point of this article however, was to point out that if a manager follows the rules, there is nothing he is doing wrong.
Coach, last year my son and 3 other boys on the team did in fact play the minimum every game that all the players were present. The absolute bare minimum, yes it does happen, and it happens often. I didn’t even get upset until the forth game of the season and mine and the other 3 had all been on the bench for every game.
The coaches that he had last year, still think that my wife and I said something, (I should have, and ashamed that I didn’t)but are son wouldn’t let us. It was so bad last year, that three other coaches said something to the board and then the board approached us, but since they are not technically breaking any rules, nothing was done. They still think we said something.
We ended up putting our son back in the draft, but I have to admit, the damage is done. He has a great coach this year, and he is great with me whipping fast balls at him in the backyard, or in the cage, but he has no confidence in the game.
When he bats now, he stands there, 2 years ago he was probably 2 or 3 from the best player on the team, according to his coach, he had a perfect batting record half way through the season.
He’s not jumping out of the box, he’s not afraid of the ball, he just watches it go buy. I asked him why and he says he just can’t make himself swing the bat, he knows they are strikes, he just can’t swing at them.
We work and we work, but the damage is done, all I can do is try and get him to snap out of it.
Don’t tell me it doesn’t happen, I’ve seen it many times, I’ve experienced it myself, it’s a problem that exists in sports.
The point of this article however, was to point out that if a manager follows the rules, there is nothing he is doing wrong.
I can’t even begin to tell you how much I disagree with this statement!
Let me fix that for you:
The point of this article however, was to point out that if a manager follows the rules, there is nothing
he is doing wrongthat will be done about a glaringly obvious problem.Eric,
Again, I love this debate. Thank you for sharing your concerns. I would say I am in my 23rd year of coaching and have never known a coach to have the ability to have players play only minimums every game. That would require every player comes to every game. That said, if you say it happened to you that is not good. You did say something that caught my eye though. You stated that you “put your son back in the draft.” Curious how you accomplished this? Was the coach willing to simply release your player? Was he forced by the board? I would never release a player ever. I would trade him, but never release him. How did that happen? Curious to see how other leagues do it.
Thank you again.
The Little League Coach
Eric,
If you think that there is something “glaringly” wrong then you should join the board and be the force for change. There is nothing that says the local league can’t make the minimum play rule MORE stringent.
The Little League Coach
“I am in my 23rd year of coaching and have never known a coach to have the ability to have players play only minimums every game.”
I’m going to have to retract my previous statement of “every game”, there were 2 that they didn’t play the minimum, where all players were present. I believe this was due to the unwanted attention their coaching style appeared to draw after the other coaches said something to the board.
However, don’t you see the problem with your statement above? We can nitpick this to death, in those kids eyes, they are subs, they just don’t make the cut, they are “less than,” their confidence has taken a considerable blow.
Again in my eyes, at this age, that is nothing short of abuse.
I don’t coach, but it certainly is not a problem of involvement. You have to understand, due to the circumstances I supplied earlier, my knowledge and instincts in the game are 20 years behind most other peoples, (a concept that few seem able to grasp) however, I learned to keep book, and did so 2 years ago regularly, and now when they need me to, I ump when I can, (admittedly very poorly) my wife is always team Mom, and we both always fill the days in the concessions where they don’t have enough people. As I said, we are involved however they need us.
Jackie,
Thank you for your comment. I would submit we are preparing our boys for much more than that. Hence the Little League logo reading “Character, Courage, Loyalty.” Why sell the experience short?
The Little League Coach
Eric,
On that we agree. Parental involvement should have no bearing whatsoever on playing time in any season. In the spring season each player should learn and understand what their role is at the time and perform to the best of their ability in order to achieve team success. If that means getting a bunt down, taking a pitch, whatever it is. There can be great character building and confidence building when that minimum player is the one who scores the winning or go ahead run or is responsible for him/her scoring. It’s all in how the coach works w/ the player. A manager’s ultimate goal should be to make every player the best they can be. If 12 players and 3 coaches improve every game then each game the team improves by a factor of 15.
I’d also like to add Coach, I’m noticing with some of my comments I’m sounding a bit acidic, and well… kind of crappy. I don’t mean to, I’m just extremely frustrated, and I really do disagree strongly with the minimum play rule, or more accurately, the application of it in some circumstances.
It’s also heart-breaking to see the regression my son made last year that he has carried forward, and I’m ashamed of myself as a parent and his number one advocate for letting it happen.
This is no longer about silly baseball, he has to figure out a way to regain his confidence after someone has torn it away from him, he will be a better person because of it, and you can bet he will never do the same to someone else or let it happen again to him.
Eric,
No worries. I think you are providing great insight. I think we both agree on most things. I am sure that your child will be fine and will find his passion in baseball or something else, it is disappointing to me to hear any different.
Good luck and I can’t wait to hear your success stories!
The Little League Coach
Unfortunately for my son Daddy ball is alive and well this year. We were very blessed last spring to have VERY fair coaching and all of the boys got plenty of play time, including a special needs player. The result was winning the world series of 9/10 year olds of their league. My son pretty much rotated between shortstop, third, and left field. Shortstop being his primary position which he also played in Allstars. This year, when he is not on the bench, he plays either left field, right field, third, or first. The asst. Coach’s sons play shortstop. The result, even when the ball is hit straight to them, no outs at first. One bobbles the ball a lot, the other throws like a rainbow. At last night’s game there were at least five balls hit straight to the same kid, not one of them resulted in an out at first and we lost 14-7. EVERY game has been like this. The sad part is that one of the kids is a GREAT center fielder but rarely plays there. My son is very shy with adults and wanted me to ask the coach if he could play at shortstop. I am reluctant to get involved in the politics because it may make things worse. Also, since coach’s who do this rarely see their bias it is a waste of time.
Johanna,
Thank you for your reply. This is unfortunate. I do like to believe that the coaches are doing what they think is best for the team but can’t know the details in this situation and know that there are those who don’t. Please let us know if you approach him and what the results are.
The Little League Coach